The WNBA's star rookies are driving fresh interest and putting up startling numbers but there are still questions about their flaws. We take a closer look.
Actually, to get a more accurate feel for Clark’s assist/turnover performance (and since you saw fit to comment on the relative gaps between Clark and number 2 in each category), you should factor in the assists lost to blown layups.
I agree, if you’re going to say that assists to turnovers aren’t diametrically opposed, I think you have to also factor in that great passes aren’t always converted on. So a more accurate measurement would be comparing turnovers to passes that connected with teammates, whether they led to scoring or not
That is so true just the last game ( Dallas) there were 3 blown layups in the first half on her thread the needle passes and one that Smith inexplicably just passed up the wide open layup for a " hand grenade" 3pt to Fagbenle.
I don’t see how you can say things like “keep things civil” and then give an opinionated take like “Clark throws behind the back passes to keep herself entertained.” If you’ve watched the Fever as you claim, you can see that those ARE often the “Chelsea Gray” way, and that they have been converted on a higher rate as she and her teammates have developed chemistry. It’s not that she was throwing when there wasn’t space just for funsies, it was that there WAS space but her teammates didn’t anticipate them and now there is. You’re clearly biased, even if you claim not to be, which has been evident from your publication throughout Clark’s career, and is funny to me because she’s always been a stats leader on your page
One thing not really mentioned here is that Clark, for all of the brilliant things she did in college, was also a bit of a turnover machine. Even she recognized that. This is the way she plays. She's just continued that style, which has largely worked. Of course she'd like to cut down the turnovers. But the Fever seem to be accepting of it to this point and they're firmly in the playoffs, which was goal #1 for this year.
That’s because turnovers are often directly correlated to the best passers. Look at the NBA turnover leaders. They’re not “taking good with the bad” the turnovers come as a byproduct of her insane passing. Compare her, for example, to Sabrina Ionescu. Sabrina has less turnovers, but she can’t even get the ball in to her big. I don’t know how much more evidence everyone needs that this hand wringing about turnovers is just silly, and honestly just seems like an attempt to undermine Clark because there’s not a ton to criticize in her game. And people feel like they need to find something because they said she wouldn’t be all that good
You don’t know that. Make basketball arguments instead of leaps in what she is or isn’t doing in all of her time between games. It’s not easy to get rebounds and she’s getting contested offensive rebounds that lead to additional possessions for her team. This is when I find the analysis becomes less about their games, which I thought was the focus.
One thing about Caitlin’s behind the back passes and such are that they lead to the defense not having any clue what she’s about to do. Maybe that’s why a list of the NBA players leading in turnovers is almost a carbon copy of a list of the best NBA players of all time.
Well, you can’t do math. Only 1/3 of her offensive rebounds come from her own misses. She grabs a ton of defensive rebounds. Only about 10 to 15% of her total rebounds come from her own misses.
Reese is too busy accessorizing and developing her pod cast show to put in the work, Clark is truly all in on winning, trying to weed out what works in the WNBA and what doesn't, with many of her attempts just hitting her opponent's to stop the shot clock when she is pressed or double teamed . Great assessment though...
bottom line for AR, if it's so easy to get rebounds and pad your stats how come other people aren't right there with her. Oh and what are her defensive rebound stats?
Simple.. Reese is ALWAYS under the basket where others are out trying to be passed to therefore you can't be in 2 places at once, therfore Reeses rebound chances with her genetics of height is a higher percentage
Fair evaluation but skills are a chasm apart. Reese is all effort I am aghast at her lack of any offensive skills. she is a demon on the boards. She does not quit. There is no discussion on ROY( it's laughable) but Reese is 100% effort
Checking for no particular reason: nobody at Her Hoop Stats has a ROTY vote, right?
I don’t get the point of this exercise. Sure people downplay Angel’s rebounds and rationalize Caitlin’s turnovers, but people also downplay Caitlin’s assists and rationalize Angel’s poor shooting. People on the internet are crazy
I would agree but they both play significant minutes on not great teams so the plus minus being better for Angel i really wish I could understand why that’s the case. I tend to not think it’s noise. I agree CC is ROTY, but why is she negative on a bad team and CC is positive on a bad team? Are Angels teammates just that much worse than her?
Her "selfishness entitlement" is what caused her reputation. The "me too" queen should speak less about herself and focus on her skills because they are very limited.
Nice assessment of both players. Thank you.
Thank you for this analysis. I find it interesting and helpful in "listening" to all the talk.
Actually, to get a more accurate feel for Clark’s assist/turnover performance (and since you saw fit to comment on the relative gaps between Clark and number 2 in each category), you should factor in the assists lost to blown layups.
I agree, if you’re going to say that assists to turnovers aren’t diametrically opposed, I think you have to also factor in that great passes aren’t always converted on. So a more accurate measurement would be comparing turnovers to passes that connected with teammates, whether they led to scoring or not
That is so true just the last game ( Dallas) there were 3 blown layups in the first half on her thread the needle passes and one that Smith inexplicably just passed up the wide open layup for a " hand grenade" 3pt to Fagbenle.
Stahp
Stahp
I don’t see how you can say things like “keep things civil” and then give an opinionated take like “Clark throws behind the back passes to keep herself entertained.” If you’ve watched the Fever as you claim, you can see that those ARE often the “Chelsea Gray” way, and that they have been converted on a higher rate as she and her teammates have developed chemistry. It’s not that she was throwing when there wasn’t space just for funsies, it was that there WAS space but her teammates didn’t anticipate them and now there is. You’re clearly biased, even if you claim not to be, which has been evident from your publication throughout Clark’s career, and is funny to me because she’s always been a stats leader on your page
One thing not really mentioned here is that Clark, for all of the brilliant things she did in college, was also a bit of a turnover machine. Even she recognized that. This is the way she plays. She's just continued that style, which has largely worked. Of course she'd like to cut down the turnovers. But the Fever seem to be accepting of it to this point and they're firmly in the playoffs, which was goal #1 for this year.
That’s because turnovers are often directly correlated to the best passers. Look at the NBA turnover leaders. They’re not “taking good with the bad” the turnovers come as a byproduct of her insane passing. Compare her, for example, to Sabrina Ionescu. Sabrina has less turnovers, but she can’t even get the ball in to her big. I don’t know how much more evidence everyone needs that this hand wringing about turnovers is just silly, and honestly just seems like an attempt to undermine Clark because there’s not a ton to criticize in her game. And people feel like they need to find something because they said she wouldn’t be all that good
Angel Reese isn’t even in the same level of talent as Clark. Those rebounds are all her own misses. ME-BOUNDS. she’s awful….why don’t people see that.
Lol no. Reese is dogshit
great analytical piece!
You don’t know that. Make basketball arguments instead of leaps in what she is or isn’t doing in all of her time between games. It’s not easy to get rebounds and she’s getting contested offensive rebounds that lead to additional possessions for her team. This is when I find the analysis becomes less about their games, which I thought was the focus.
The proverbial comparing apples to oranges
One thing about Caitlin’s behind the back passes and such are that they lead to the defense not having any clue what she’s about to do. Maybe that’s why a list of the NBA players leading in turnovers is almost a carbon copy of a list of the best NBA players of all time.
Well, you can’t do math. Only 1/3 of her offensive rebounds come from her own misses. She grabs a ton of defensive rebounds. Only about 10 to 15% of her total rebounds come from her own misses.
Reese is too busy accessorizing and developing her pod cast show to put in the work, Clark is truly all in on winning, trying to weed out what works in the WNBA and what doesn't, with many of her attempts just hitting her opponent's to stop the shot clock when she is pressed or double teamed . Great assessment though...
bottom line for AR, if it's so easy to get rebounds and pad your stats how come other people aren't right there with her. Oh and what are her defensive rebound stats?
Simple.. Reese is ALWAYS under the basket where others are out trying to be passed to therefore you can't be in 2 places at once, therfore Reeses rebound chances with her genetics of height is a higher percentage
Exactly. Extra possessions are extra possessions plain and simple.
Fair evaluation but skills are a chasm apart. Reese is all effort I am aghast at her lack of any offensive skills. she is a demon on the boards. She does not quit. There is no discussion on ROY( it's laughable) but Reese is 100% effort
Checking for no particular reason: nobody at Her Hoop Stats has a ROTY vote, right?
I don’t get the point of this exercise. Sure people downplay Angel’s rebounds and rationalize Caitlin’s turnovers, but people also downplay Caitlin’s assists and rationalize Angel’s poor shooting. People on the internet are crazy
Man some of you guys are the worst man. The absolute worst….
? Where did I say anything that was false?
I would agree but they both play significant minutes on not great teams so the plus minus being better for Angel i really wish I could understand why that’s the case. I tend to not think it’s noise. I agree CC is ROTY, but why is she negative on a bad team and CC is positive on a bad team? Are Angels teammates just that much worse than her?
Her "selfishness entitlement" is what caused her reputation. The "me too" queen should speak less about herself and focus on her skills because they are very limited.